Man, that pile of things from granddad’s apartment just calls out to me every time I walk in my room. Like a little siren singing, luring me in.
I grabbed a new folder out of the middle of the stack. And, uh, hmm, well, there’s this…
Hey napkin, that’s a cute hat you have there.
I called the number on this napkin – seems like more confirmation that grandpa was up to something with the “Special Projects Team.” Not sure what a ‘wed prototype vocal mail system’ is, but I think I want one!
I’ve really been wondering how much mom knew about all this stuff. She doesn’t talk about it now, but I bet grandpa was awesome to have as a dad.
Edited to add:
Oh man, this just gets better! Thanks to Stephanie, it looks like ‘the Tam’ is short for ‘Tam O’Shanter’ – a restaurant in LA. Kalani posted a great link all about the restaurant’s connection to Disney back in the day. And from the photos on their website, they also like plaid. Gramps would have loved it!
Has anyone been there? That chocolate soufflé people keep mentioning on the review sites talk about sounds A-M-A-Z-I-N-G right about now. If you go have one for me and take pix.
The Tam is the Tam O’Shatner and Walt Disney frequently ate there. WED stand for Walter Elias Disney and was the previous name for Walt Disney Imagineering. Does anyone know what the code is for the voicemail?
*Shanter
It asked for the code “for today’s date”, so I tried 7-10-13 and 10-7-13, but neither of those seemed to work.
Think this might be “The Snug” he is referring to? http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-snug-burbank
I think this might be the same one that is related to Molly Malone’s. I don’t know what it has to do with Disney but that spot has quite a lot of history in LA. It is also the place where a famous Irish punk band got their name. They have a pretty sweet jukebox.
Just called. We need today’s code to get the meeting minutes?
The code is 0710
That seems to be it– drat, I got so close before and gave up! I guess I didn’t need the year. Speaking of which… does anyone else find it weird that the message is apparently from a system that’s been uninterrupted for almost half a century? It’s rare enough to find phone numbers on webpages from the ’90s that still work.
I tried that and it didn’t work for me.
It changed to match today’s date. Same message, just increment the code by one, it’s now the 11th not the 10th, I’m guessing Eastern Standard Time.
(Hey Amelia, your blog software just told me “as_uming” is blocked in comments for “language.”)
My phone showed the call as being to Los Angeles, which is in the Pacific time zone, so it’s weird that they would use Eastern…
(Oh, and I noticed that, too, writing “presume” instead works nicely.)
“The Tam” is the Tam O’Shatner in LA. not far from the Disney Studios. Walt ate there often. More info –> http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2012/02/27/walt-disney-ate-here-the-tam-o-shanter/
0710 is the code. Today’s date.
thanks!
You’re welcome! =)
Too easy
How did you get the code? It worked I’m just curious.a
The message said to use “today’s date code”.
I just called. I wish I knew what the code was!
FYI – The “SNUG” is the name of the bar at the Tam. Too bad I don’t still live in LA, I’d go down tonight just to see if there was anything hidden in the real world location. Silly me and moving to Seattle! http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2012/02/27/walt-disney-ate-here-the-tam-o-shanter/
Based on the photo of the prime rib on their website I might just have to meander down there… You know, to investigate. http://www.lawrysonline.com/tam-oshanter/ For whatever info can be gleaned from their site, if any. Walt’s table was #31 there.
I’ve heard their rarebit (like a fondue) is delicious. If you meander on down, report back any suspicious circumstances!
Hey, at least Seattle hosted a World’s Fair of its own in 1962– Disney wasn’t involved in planning for it like New York 1964, but Walt did apparently visit:
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfmDisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=10142
I think that visiting might be the key to finding out what the next clue is. If walt visited this restaurant frequently, then there might be a picture of him on the wall above table #31. that picture might contain something that can be used to help us in this quest to find out what the project name is? or what “The city” refers too!
DisneyCartography responded to LostDeltaPhoto on Twitter that to find out what was written on the bottom of the picture with the kilted figure, you’d have to find the original. At the Tam, this picture is right above table 31, drawn by John Hench and signed by Walt. http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorenjavier/5109734204/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Apologies, this is NOT above table 31, but is elsewhere in the Tam.
Sadly that is out in the lobby. This http://www.flickr.com/photos/sirnadroj/7984413605/ is table 31 and shows the painting.
“The City” is EPCOT in it’s earliest concepts. Walt wanted to actually make a city–not a theme park. You can google “EPCOT the city” and you will likely come up with all the background on it.
Also, my dad makes stops to the Tam all the time for his work, so I asked him to scope it out. There is only one picture/painting directly related to Walt and the Tam, and it has been mentioned here a few times.
Try this link: http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2012/02/27/walt-disney-ate-here-the-tam-o-shanter/
Hope this helps!
I cannot call as I am living abroad.
This mystery is entangling!
The minutes from the last meeting talk about a “city”. A lot of the patents (Auto-Apparatus, Signal Flags, and the Mark Zero project) are being used for said city. Hope some of those things help you out!
So, I called, and they talk about a project, but there is a secret name for it, but the secret name is not listed. I tried mark zero and tomorrow on the Lott website, but it didn’t work.
Me too no luck. It’s says they have been given a special project name but doesn’t mention it.
Mark zero reminds me of the monorail system versions. The WDW trains from 1971 – 1991 were Mark IV. Built by Martin Marietta. Let’s not ignore the involvement of this corporation with the NASA program.
Certainly, my dorm at Space Camp was named for Martin Marietta. And there was a NASA pavilion at the Fair, too…
I’m on the train and so can’t hear well enough to get an exact transcript, hopefully someone else can leave a better one but here’s my notes:
Minutes for 4/19/1964
In old business change order for Lott Family const approved access to small world secure area approved.
Final signal flag install is successful ready for private demos as of the 14th
lincoln two week delay as of 18th
Carlos additional work for “tomorrow” travel to flushing meadows
patents for the following on hold
auto apparatus
signal flag
mk 0
integral to “the city”
all development of the city will be conducted under new conference number and code.
Some thoughts:
Signal Flag could be referring to 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Auto Apparatus could refer to the Monorail (tying in the Mark Zero point as well)
“The City” could refer to Epcot
Thoughts? Where do we go from here?
Beyond the maritime use, signal flags were also used on railroads.
Mark Zero is definitely reminiscent of the Monorails.
What would be the connection between 20,000 Leagues and “Signal Flag”?
The original submarines at Disneyland had signal flags on them. The attractions is related to 20,000 leagues under the sea. I remember them being sold on ebay a few years ago. Can anyone find a good picture of these flags? Todd shipyards is where some of the Disney ships were built. This is in San Pedro. May be The City is LA. People say “I am going into the city” when they say LA. When searching for “Todd shipyards Disneyland” in google I found this blog…
http://disneylandcompendium.blogspot.com/
I think that a picture of Lincoln at the Disney attraction is his set identification photo. Curious…
Oh, gotcha. Nautical signal flags on the submarines would make sense.
My gut is saying that the Auto Apparatus would be the Fords Magic Skyway. The magic skyway was how Walt realized he could use something similar for a transit system that later became the PeopleMover.
http://micechat.com/blogs/samland/1784-wedway-peoplemover-story.html
!!! BELOW ARE THE TRANSCRIBED CONTENTS OF THE CALL — #SPOILER #SPOILER #SPOILER !!!
These are the minutes for the worlds fair special projects team meeting for April 19, 1964. In old business, change [inexplicable] for Lott Family Construction regarding access to ‘small world’ secure area is approved as of April 13. Final signal flag installation has been successful and is ready for private demonstrations at the World’s Fair as of April 14. Final adjustments to acommodate the advancements to Lincoln may require a 2 week delay as of April 18. In new businesss, the future of the exhibits post fair were discussed at length. Need to arrange transportation to Flushing Meadows for Carlos to discuss additional work for tomorrow. Walt’s office to set up meeting with Hughes(?) at the temporary offices in Queens. Patent applications to be put on hold for the following: auto apparatus, signal flag and the Mark Zero project. All are integraral to the future of ‘The City,’ however this information should not yet be available to the public. Due to recent security concerns, all further developments of the city will be conducted under a new confidental project name at corresponding conference number. To access future meeting minutes, please use the appropriate conference number and code. This concludes the meeting minutes for April 19, 1964.
Hughes? Could they mean Howard Hughes? Or the Hughes Aircraft Company?
Maybe this new confidential project name is the same as the http://lottfamilyconstruction.com/ProjectCode
Could Hughes be Howard Hughes? I know Walt Disney had financial help from Hughes. Also, when Disney was secretly buying land in Florida, people thought that it might be Howard Hughes or the space program among others.
I just remembered something crucial. Waltndisney had initial plans to build an indoor theme park in St. Louis but in the early spring of ’64 the ny times got wind and a PR was announced. This might be the security concerns raised. I can’t believe I forgot this …
So the meeting minutes says Lincoln “may” have a two week delay due to accommodating “advancements” as of April 18th, however, according to Wikipedia Great Moments opened on the 22nd at the Fair. Also Wallace’s wording on his Lincoln poster artwork mentions a similar “advanced” concept. “I was inspired by the first audio-animatronic, years more advanced than anyone realized.”
Mark I trains were built 1959-1961 for Disneyland by ALWEG. Read about Axel Wenner-Gren. Not sure if he would be connected to this. A reach maybe.
could “Hughes” be Howard Hughes? He did have a controlling stake in TWA at the time that Walt worked with them for sponsorship at Disneyland, so they could have had a relationship? Also, Disney used him much later as a character in the Rocketeer?
FYI Flushing Meadows was the site for the 1964 Worlds Fair.
I cannot help but wonder if this is connected to EPCOT. I know that people are finding a connection to the new film and ‘Tomorrowland’ but I feel like there is another connection.
The voice mail speaks about ongoing work to “the city” and to “tomorrow”, EPCOT was the “Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow”. So both a “city” and “tomorrow”. Secondly M.T. Lott was one of the fake companies used while purchasing land for the Florida project which was going to be EPCOT.
Just a thought that I wanted to throw out there.
That would be a great twist
I thought that as well..everything being integral to the future of the ‘city’ since of course EPCOT was supposed to BE a future city
Everything refers to “the city” and one of epcot’s code names was the city. And the redacted letter had a definite reference to The Florida Project- which is absolutely epcot- so I think this is a pretty solid guess.
I agree this can also be pointing to EPCOT as well as the movie. If what people say about the signal flags are correct in being for ships that could be in relation to the Seas pavilion, the Auto Appiratous (excuse my spelling please) not only can be said for the People mover… yet what about Test Track? And Finally with Mark Zero meaning the Monorail the Monorail actually goes through most of EPCOT’s Future Land. In Conclusion I am not leaving out the fact of the Movie yet I also agree with Matthew that this could be talking about EPCOT
That phrase- signal flags- I keep almost remembering hearing something about that in Walts Biography in the WDW section. I only have the audio book version, so I can’t just flip through it- and its about 40 hours long- so its not something I can just re-listen to in a day, but I think that the connection to 20000 leagues is not right. Auto Apparatus I really think has to do with the monorail- there was a time in the 50′s and 60s when people thought that kind of transportation was the way the future was going to work. People mover is along the same lines.
Mark Zero is almost definitely referring to the Monorails, but the personyou want to think about is the father of Disney transportation, Bob Gurr. The Monorail development may be the Gorilla Project Ford is concerned over.
Modified Monorail to take people to another dimension? Possibly the City “orbit” or tommorowland and the signal is a connection to that realm? Just thinking out loud
Wallace from disneycartography.net just tweeted that his favourite audio-animatronic is Lincoln
If they are discussing the future of the exhibits after the fair weren’t all of them moved to Disneyland? The Signal Flag was mentioned twice, what is that? Is it part of one of the attractions?
make that 3x.the napkin mentions to follow up on signal flag. whatever it is, it’s patentable and was ready to be shown in private at the fair. And note it’s in quotes on the napkin.
Good catch I saw hat too!
Hey guys, for those who couldn’t call, Here’s a recording of the message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ClsEWAmVYc
I got a reply again. I asked about your grandfather.
“Dear Zach,
Oh, yeah. I think he was a writer or some such. I think we chatted at the Fair a bit… but that’s all I really remember. “
a search for this Kalem Tonn name (a quite uncommon name) looks like this individual is from British Columbia. The only Disney connection that I can think of to BC is Disney Online Studios, the Club Penguin people.
There has got to be another connection somewhere in this, it would seem wierd that the email would come from Kalem Tonn, but he would sign the email Michael Lott. Maybe Lalem Tonn, is and Anagram for something else?
Kalem Tonn / Donn Tatum? That’s too similar to be coincidence?
Donn Tatum played a big role in the development of EPCOT. Again going with the Epcot connection.
All of the attractions were moved in some form to Disneyland after the fair was completed
well, sort of.
if you check out Lincoln’s dates at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moments_with_Mr._Lincoln you might notice something peculiar.
His dates overlap. In actuality, Lincoln was operating at both the World’s Fair and Disneyland concurrently.
Not sure it means anything here (other than Wallace seems to love it), but it’s an interesting bit of trivia to say the least.
So I guess there were multiple Mr. Lincolns?
There were indeed — After the World’s Fair run, the original Lincoln was packed up and shipped back to California…where it was forgotten. It was brought out of retirement in 2005 for the traveling “Behind the Magic: 50 Years of Disneyland” exhibit.
I just found this site it has some then and Now photos on the Worlds Fair site and identifies where the Disney attractions were. I don’t think it moves the needle at all but it’s interesting.
http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/2013/1/17/then-and-now-1964-65-new-york-worlds-fair.html
Amelia! I am planning on going to Disneyland on Saturday and was wondering if you want me to do some investigation there at the park to find out more about your grandfather! If so my email is JaceA113@Gmail.com and my twitter is @JaceDiehl. Contact me with what to do! I’m here to help!
Thanks, Jace! I appreciate the offer. Unfortunately, I’ve never been to Disneyland, so I wouldn’t even know where to begin. In fact, if anyone would know, it would probably be everyone else here. But if I find something in Grandpa’s stash that points to Disneyland, I’ll let you all know. Deal?
Sounds wonderful Amelia! Though I’m nowhere near Disneyland/World I look forward to any reports from people lucky enough to be out in the field! And pics, lots and lots of pics of ppls adventures!
Yes! Adventure pics are awesome!
If you need anyone to go to the fairgrounds at Flushing Meadows, I volunteer!
I’m thinking “Flag Signal” might have something to do with The Magic Skyway… I’m thinking “Flag Signal” has to do with automobiles or perhaps the flag signals used on a railroad – Either way, they connect to the Primeval World, which was originally in the Magic Skyway but placed in the WDW Railroad. Perhaps Orbit’s Story has to do with the story of the EARTH’S orbit, time going one, i.e. the History of Humanity. Sounds a lot like Spaceship Earth to me!
P.S. Here’s audio from the Ford Magic Skyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgna1hj3jvA
Maybe this was Carlos’ project?
Sorry, Disneyland Railroad
The Tam sounds excellent! Let’s go! We can wear plaid and swap stories about our grandpa types and the cool things they did with Disney! I bet together we can impress the waitstaff with all the cool photos of our bad*ss grandparents. Maybe someone there remembers yours? Might get some cool info
I wish I could go – wearing plaid and swapping grandpa stories is one of my favorite pastimes – but alas, I’m on the opposite side of the country.
When you go, though, I’ll be looking forward to a report.
Alright, I’ll see if I can get table #31! Anyone else want to go with? Maybe we can make a field trip! I’ll be sure to take lots of pictures and if I see someone who looks like they might know, I’ll ask about your grandfather.
That’s great Kira! You rock.
Wish I could be there with you. I’ll be thinking plaid thoughts and look forward to hearing all about it!
I’ll make sure to document my adventure thoroughly
I won’t be in LA until the 5th of Aug. But I am going . Plan on going now.
That’s awesome. Amelia’s right you totally rock. Enjoy yourself.
Wish I could go too! Never been… but it’s on the list of must-dos. Looking forward to what you find.
My friend Christine and I in our plaid, ready to report!
Yes! Go, Kira and Christine. I’ve got my plaid PJs on, so I’m there in spirit.
The soufflé was delicious, molten hot the whole time, but soooo worth it! If you want some more pictures I’d be happy to email them to you Amelia
for now, here are a few pictures of the really important stuff… The soufflé!
Yum!
Chocolate fluffy delicious molten cloud of a desert
Speaking of the Tam, Wallace at disneycartography.com has some excellent artwork of Walt Disney, John Hench, Mary Blair and (Marty Sklar?) at the restaurant.
Trying to attach the artwork again…
Okay. Not sure why I can’t upload right now. But here’s the link: http://disneycartography.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tam.jpg
I am currently looking at Wallace’s picture of the Tam and studying the pictures on the table in the art piece. I believe one is of the Lincoln animatronic, and the one in the back is of Small World dolls. What are those blue prints in between? Are they relevant?
Looks a lot like an original EPCOT concept.
They are of the E.P.C.O.T. that Walt planned for Florida before passing away.
I’d dare say it looks exactly like Walt’s plans for EPCOT. Wallace and I were having a little chat and he recommended that if you want a slightly larger version of the image, you should check out http://disneycartography.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tam2.jpg instead. Oh, and you also may want to stand on your head too — it’s upside down.
For comparison’s sake, check out this promotional video for EPCOT Walt made shortly before his untimely passing. You’ll want to pay close attention around the 12:08 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u9M3pKsrcc8#t=729s
I have attached a concept painting of EPCOT that in my opinion matches that blueprint to a T.
I took the poster from Wallace, flipped it upside down and put an Epcot painting I found online. The buildings are similar, they both have towers, and they both have a boxy shorter building in front of them.
Here is the original poster (it is the fourth one down)
http://futureofjimspast.blogspot.com/2008/11/more-epcot-concept-art.html
Apparently you cannot actually upload photos. So I uploaded it to Imgur.
http://imgur.com/HqmMqqN
Last one I promise
Here is a site that shows multiple photos of the original Epcot concept. I think it is a match. http://www.omniluxe.net/wyw/epcot.htm
You’re right; those look so similar! I wonder if the “city” that the recording talks so much about is actually EPCOT and not Tomorrowland.
Sorry for double commenting; I think that link Matthew just posted pretty much confirms that the “city” is a conceptual EPCOT.
Also I wonder what it says on top of the pictures of the it’s a small world characters the two people in back are looking at?
Can anyone read what’s on the bottom of the Lincoln pic or the top of the Small World pic in the Tam pic on Disney Cartography? I can see the bottom left of the Lincoln pic says “Great Moments with Mister Lincoln” Maybe nothing useful in that text, but was just curious.
How did you guys find out about this website? I missed the connection somewhere?
I think the only known connection to the site is that it happens to be hosted on the same webserver as this one.
I just wasn’t sure how everyone found it?
Yeah, that’s how it goes with ARGs sometimes. If it can be found/searched publicly someones gonna find it, even if it’s sooner than expected. After @DCartography was found I googled “I am a fictional character, play along at…” to see what other twitter accounts would pop up. Only Amelia’s and Wallace’s twitter feeds, but it proves an alternate way his twitter could have been discovered.
ahhhhh you guys are smarter than I am I guess
actually, he wasn’t searchable based on that when he first popped up (I know, I checked). Took time for Google to show it. So there could be others.
They said something about “to arrange transportation to Flushing Meadows for Carlos to discuss additional work for tomorrow” and to set up a meeting with “Hughes at the temporary office in Queens”. This is the wiki for Flushing Meadows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flushing_Meadows%E2%80%93Corona_Park
Wasn’t Flushing Meadows where the East Coast Disney Park was going to be placed? I wonder if it was something secret that changed their mind. And I wonder just how Carlos was involved in that.
It also said something about some security issues and kept mentioning “the city” and “tomorrow”. All further development is under a new confidential project name and conference number… So I think we’d need that.
Hey, Amelia! Maybe when you have your interview with Michael, you can see if you can get your hands on that number!
May or may not be relevant but I stumbled upon this name several times in my search. Don Edgren, not only was he hired by WED to be a project consultant on the magic skyway he later was involved in the development of the Florida Project. Here’s a link if you want to read more :
Not sure if this is relevant but i kept stumbling on this name. don edgren was the project coordinator hired by WED to oversee the ford exhibit at the World’s fair and later he was vp engineer of Project Florida . here’s a link https://d23.com/don-edgren/
I’m pretty sure Flushing Meadows is where the 1964 Worlds Fair was held. You can even see the giant globe in the picture on the wikipedia page you posted; its the same globe from images of the fair. When they say they want to bring Carlos to the Flushing Meadows, they mean to the fair.
That’s my interpretation of the Flushing Meadows ref. as well.
Definitely. That’ll be at the top of my list, Danielle.
I know that some are saying that “the city” could mean EPCOT which I do think is possible but just in case many people who have lived in NYC call it “The City” which also could play along with other sidelines.
So much of the voice code talks about “the city.” What is the city in question? Epcot? Tomorrowland? Or even a city in Orbit’s Story that they planned to use?
Also–they talked a lot in the recorded minutes about security issues and how they had to rename a project… I find it a nice coincidence considering all that Mr. Lott has said about Small World and the noises. And the secretive things going on there while he was working. Can anyone connect the dots?
Well, there was obviously a project going on that the insiders didn’t want people to know about, apparently not even Mr. Lott. Maybe someone was trying to find out exactly what it was.
Look at this link that Matthew posted: http://www.omniluxe.net/wyw/epcot.htm
It has to be the city they’re talking about. Right?
That would be quite logical!
I would agree I think maybe the signal flag has something to do with the Disney Railroad?? I looked at the picture again and the middle picture also looks like part of the Autopia. Which is called the Tomorrowland Speedway in Florida. The first set of cars was called the ‘Mark 1′. Maybe that is what they were referring to not the Monarail. Look at the history about it on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopia
My first thought when I saw “signal flags,” since my mind was already on the NY World’s Fair, was the Tower of the Four Winds that was outside It’s a Small World – it always reminded me of a collection of flags in an abstract sense. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, here’s an image: http://worldsfairphotos.blogspot.com/2009/10/tower-of-four-winds.html I wonder if (a) there is a picture of it somewhere at the Tam O’Shanter (maybe one of you in LA who has mentioned you plan to go could look around the snug?) and/or (b) if somehow the colors on the tower might spell something out in the form of the standard maritime signal flags (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_maritime_signal_flags) – nothing jumps out at me, but anyone more familiar with either the tower or the flags might see something that I’m not. I’m not sure what happened to the tower after the fair – there are different theories on various websites about whether it was scrapped, the materials reused for other things, or could still be in storage somewhere – but it seems like it could be relevant, given that it was a somewhat prominent feature of Disney’s world’s fair presence that hasn’t come up yet.
Okay, new big picture theory: What if Disney’s 1964 World’s Fair attractions weren’t as disconnected as we thought? What if “It’s a Small World” was meant as a message of peace to beings arriving from, say, an alternate universe, and the robotic Lincoln pressed into service as our greatest ambassador?
That could be a great science fiction story in and of itself.
I don’t know if anybody has these books but they might just aid in our research of EPCOT and possibly even the 1964 worlds fair. I’m just about to start reading them now, so hopefully I will find some answers!
http://www.amazon.com/Walt-Disney-Imagineering-Behind-Dreams/dp/0786883723
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1423107667/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0786883723&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=11A5C0YBC4K7HTXQE06B
Hello there! This is kind of off topic but I need some help from an established blog.
Is it tough to set up your own blog? I’m not very techincal but I can figure things out pretty fast. I’m thinking about making my own but I’m not sure where to start. Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Many thanks
Hmm it seems like your website ate my first comment (it was super long) so I guess I’ll just sum it up what I wrote and say, I’m thoroughly enjoying your blog.
I as well am an aspiring blog blogger but I’m still new to the whole thing. Do you have any suggestions for novice blog writers? I’d genuinely appreciate it.
looks like a spam comment to me… normal users can’t post a link with their names.
I have been looking at the pictures on the http://www.dcartography.com website and I have noticed some things:
all the pictures seem to relate to each other: in the TAM picture there is a strange symbol to the left of John Hench that symbol also appears in Lincolns brain, The IASW doll in the frame on the wall, appears in the “IASW” picture holding a cell phone none the less, the cog wheel behind Lincoln clearly represents the layout of EPCOT as seen on the blueprint in the TAM picture, and that is represented again on the mothers dress in the “COP” picture. The satellites in the “IASW” picture form the atomic symbol when joined together and that can be found in the wallpaper on the “COP” picture, also on the wallpaper is the DNA to “double helix” symbol which can be found on the primeval world picture, on on the circle border around Lincoln. all of these have to mean something, and I think that Wallace might know a little more than he is letting on.
Good catches…as I was looking at all of the images again after reading your post, it occurred to me – the site is called “Cartography of Disney,” but these aren’t maps – unless somehow they all go together to form a larger map of something, and these common symbols indicate points on the map….
yeah, it does seem like the common theme to them is E.P.C.O.T. though, it looks like most of them have some reference to it!
I cropped and sharpened that symbol on the Lincoln and TAM pictures, if anyone is interested.
From the other comments I gather that image uploads don’t work so I’m posting links instead. Might be stylized initials? TU?
http://cl.ly/QCsX
http://cl.ly/QCjM
I zoomed in and went over the other pictures and did not see it on them.
I didn’t see anything on the other pictures either. I have no clue what the symbol is though
I thought that this was his signature, but it’s not on all of them.
Anyone else get an attachment from Lott Construction in response to email?? I got this redacted document, but you can make out some of the redacted areas, like “florida project” and “Mark 0 project”.
I got the same attachment so then we have to figure out what the mark 0 project and the florida project have in common.
On my flat screen for my PC, i found that i can make out some more of the redactions if I look at it from a higher angle. Redacation #1 is “The ____” I think the second word is only 4 characters, and the first looks like “O” or “0″. Redaction #2 is “Florida Project”. Redaction #3 appears to be the same as #1. Still can’t make it out though. I might be wrong about the “O” and it might be “The City”. Redaction #4 appears to be “Operation Signal Flag”. Redaction #5 I can’t make out. Redaction #6 is the easiest to read, “Mark 0 Project”.
trying this a second time. I received an attachment from Lott Construction. Trying to attach here.
anyone else get an attachment from Lott Construction?
Can somebody post the attachment?
i tried but it won’t attach. here is a link to it: http://homeiswherethemouseis.blogspot.com/p/optimist-game-clues.html
https://twitter.com/baseballmickey/status/355417759036866562/photo/1
I did some image manipulation on it, and I can make out most of the words:
http://t.co/OHycqHit4u
Not sure what’s before “signal flag”, it might be “operation”.
None of these codes work on the Lott site.
1) The City
2) Florida Project
3) The City
4) Operation (??) Signal Flag
5) Auto Apparatus
6) Mark 0 Project
The word before Signal Flag starts with an “Op” or “Or” it appears, and is long enough to be “Operation”
Autopia is an Auto Apparatus. The waves of cars were called Marks. Maybe they used signal flags as well. Or it could be the mark twain riverboat, which had flags.
I apologize for the multiple posts, it was inserting them into the middle of the comments, rather than at the bottom. I didn’t see them.
I was researching more information about the General Electric Progressland area of the ’64 Fair and I found this: “The highlight of the exhibit demonstrated a brief plasma “explosion” of controlled nuclear fusion. The crowd-pleasing loud crack that was produced could be heard even on the line outside in the neighboring Travelers Insurance pavilion.” COP was in this pavilion; and what was the comment made about noise in a back room?
He said the noise sounded like an engine humming, not an explosion, but the hum could have been part of the fusion experiment, yes. (Heh, it’s funny we were joking about flux capacitors before and the flux capacitor in that movie was fusion-powered.)
I saw that myself and was thinking it could be connected. M.T. said in his email though that the sound came from the back of IASW, and im not sure what IASW’s position was in relation to the fusion reactor was. but a nuclear fusion device could provide A LOT of power if it worked. So maybe it could have been used to power some kind of cross-dimensional travel device
There is an Atomic symbol clearly in some of the pictures on the http://www.dcartography.com website. that could be a direct connection to this.
Sorry if I am going down a rabbit hole. However I looked up more information about this type of nuclear fusion using magnetic fields, and an early attempt to build a confinement system was in 1951 and used a design built in the shape of a figure 8. This is the other symbol in the Wallace COP poster.
Besides that, look at the women’s dress the pattern eerily looks like an aerial view of the EPCOT blue print. Furthermore, the building in the background very similar to that of the EPCOT concept art. Don’t know if t ties in or not. . .but thought I would point it out.
I was thinking they were the EPCOT towers in the background too!
That figure 8 is sideways, too, which makes it look like the symbol for “infinity”– a mathematical/scientific symbol, as well as something optimistic. (At least, I think of infinity as something positive– the idea that there’s no limit to what can be achieved.)
a figure eight is the symbol for infinity, followed by an atomic symbol, to me suggests infinite nuclear energy. which is the exact goal of building a fusion reactor
I noticed on Wallace’s website he is planning on doing a live chat before the Expo on August 6th. After doing some research, I came across this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-hill/yippies-disneyland_b_920180.html I noticed it happened on August 6th. August 6th also happens to be the date of the Hiroshima bombing….
Well I emailed Mr. Lott about nuclear fusion and he has no idea what I was talking about.
Has anyone listened to Disc 4, Track 12 “Progressland” from “A Musical History of Disneyland”? It talks about GE nuclear power.
Yeah he did and he is one of the names listed on the window of the mock storefront at Disneyland. So then what is the darn code? I think it all does have something to do with EPCOT. But what? http://wdwcentral.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/companies.jpg?w=632
This may or may not help. It is interesting however.
Nice find, Kalani/Amanda! Though he died in 1993…
Hey everybody! check this out! I found the pic on another site, not sure what it means, thought maybe you guys would!!
can you post the link? cause out of context that doesnt really mean much. thanks!
That seems to spell out A113 in windings, http://pixar.wikia.com/A113
However that Google Plus page for Amelia seems to be fake, so I would not trust information off of there.
A113is an Easter Egg in Pixar films. The page seems to be signed by a Dan. Dan Scanlon’s name kept coming up when I Googled Pixar and Dan. The license plate could suggest Cars 2. The comic book underneath it looks to be a Superman book, as in “It’s a bird, it’s a PLANE…” Planes is an upcoming Pixar movie. Both are transportation related. Not sure if this is the right track but hoped it could stimulate some brainstorming.
I have one of the 1967 “Project Florida: AWhole New Disney World” booklets. It shows thr radial plan of the Epcot community, details of the area depicted on the TAM poster and that WDP intends to investigate new sources of energy supply including nuclear power.
The Disney company does have the right to build and operate a nuclear power plant within the Reedy Creek district, but they’ve never done so.
The projects seem to be Epcot related regarding the communities transportation system… people movers, monorails and light rail
I was wondering if that might have been what Ford considered a “conflict of interest”– in cities with good public transit systems, like Washington DC, fewer people own cars because they can just take the subway. But, of course, they don’t eliminate it– even DC has plenty of cars and auto traffic.
Has no one else followed the Puffles from Club Penguin link? It’s one of the few things Amelia has responded to, so it seems significant. It takes you directly to a YouTube video explaining how to get codes for free stuff on Disney’s Club Penguin site. Seems very suspicious – if that were real, wouldn’t Disney block him? And aren’t we looking for codes? The video leads you to his site (http://www.clubpenguincodesonline.com/) which has a series of codes, the first one of which is D23EXP11. I tried to use it to get into Club Penguin, but it didn’t work. Anyone else had any luck cracking this? I tried this codes on Lott Family Construction as well with no luck.
I just figured the link was there because it’s another Disney product – I clicked, too, but didn’t watch the video since I’m a bit out of the Club Penguin demographic.
I wrote back to the Lott company asking if they played any part in moving IASW to Disneyland or if they were involved in the Florida Project. I got this reply:
“Well, our first project with WED wasn’t for Disneyland per se, but we did do some contracting work for ‘small world’ and that’s been transported to Anaheim.
Truth is, though, I can’t say much more. I signed my name on the dotted line fifty years ago that said I wouldn’t divulge any information. And, by gum, I’m a man of my word. All I can tell you is there was lots going on behind the scenes. Stuff I never thought was possible.”
The passive voice of “that’s been transported” would suggest they weren’t involved in moving the ride to Disneyland, but it’s kind of ambiguous.
Also, I had a call from Albany today that I missed and when I called back there was nothing. Did that happen to anyone else?
I’m at the Tam right now at Walt’s booth. The prime rib is indeed great. I’ll report on the soufflé shortly.
Will you take a picture of the painting above the table? It could be the next clue.
Way to help out Kalani, the are a couple of other pictures in there that might help out as well.
Sorry for the delay everyone. Had a lovely dinner at the Tam; I understand why Walt loved it so much. The souffle was amazing! Amber and I took our time both to enjoy the food and take in the whole place. Cell service was poor in the corner at Walt’s table; I’m copying photos from my phone to the computer and will upload shortly.
Ok my internet here is slow slow slow. So here’s some smaller Jpgs. I’ll upload full size ones tomorrow.
Stegosaurus
Here’s an interesting one….
A familiar symbol…
ISAW FEB14 is OB1G
Call Lott
EPCOT!
By the way I’m uploading a raw dump of all the shots I took to flickr also. Small ones for now, and will replace with full size in the morning. http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGMm8jk
All of the photos I’m posting here are hereby Creative Commons BY-SA licensed so please use and share!
Contact Carlos about “Tomorrow”
5/16/64 = 0L1N
Thank you so much for all these lovely pictures!
There’s some others but I worked a 12 hour shift today and have been up since 4:30 this morning so I’m crashing. Happy hunting; Amelia and everyone else. I’ll post more tomorrow.
PS To the two of you that came in while we were there asking to see Walt’s table; if you’re reading this, I tried to catch the host and invite you over, but you left before I could.
I was seriously about to hit the hay, right now. Then I saw your pictures of the Tam and oh. my. goodness. THESE ARE AMAZING, KALANI! YOU’RE AMAZING!
Thanks for the kind words Amelia. I’m happy to be able to do what I can to help. I had a grandfather who was very dear to me too.
Amazing! Wish I could have been there, like everyone else. If only this could extend to Florida…
Thanks for sharing!
Aw, I was rather sleep addled at that point and was moving slow, we figured you had left. =( Glad you were able to get a look at the table too. We didn’t spend much time in the lobby and bar, did you notice anything there? (I can’t help but be reminded of the song lyric “Paint every insignificance a sign.”)
We should convene a group outing to the Tam at some point! =) The soufflé was quite incredible.
We definitely should! I spent a little time in the lobby. I got a few pictures I don’t see here, but they were just kind of nostalgic and cool. We didn’t get too much of an opportunity to look around unfortunately, we got there kind of late and felt bad keeping anyone any later than we already were. It looks like you got the coolest photos, those table drawings were so cool! I’m glad you got some good photos too, it was all shut down and dark when we got over there, so we couldn’t really get any good ones of the table.
Found the current owner of this drawing… Close ups with interesting details up next.
Lincoln detail
IASW
Under the Kilted doll character the small writing says “Typical Scottish Highland dress costume” My camera could not focus that close/small.
Oh! I wish he would have said something! We didn’t leave, they just showed us to the pub area. I thought about coming over and asking and saying hi, but I figured if you weren’t from Amelia’s blog here I didn’t want to disturb a random group of people and their dinner. They did let us see the table after you left though, and next time maybe we can all go together! Your pictures are great by the way! How delicious was that soufflé?!
Here’s the painting above the table. It has no words beneath it. The “Doll version” above the table in Wallace’s drawing says “Typical Scottish Highland dress costume”
All these codes have to mean something?
Sincere thank you to Kalani, Amber and anyone else who went to The Tam! The pics and field report are great for the rest of us unable to make it. Everyone rocks!
Agreed this is amazing, I wish I lived in LA and could have joined you.
I’ve updated all the photos on my flickr set to the full resolution images straight out of my phone. If anyone has questions about anything or wants clarification just let me know.
I was just watching one of the Disney Behind the Scenes Videos and the had Walt himself say that the name of it was the Experimental Prototype “City” of Tomorrow not Community!
On Twitter @baseballmickey received a memo from Lott Construction that included a memo discussing confidential treatment of projects and information. Several words within the memo were redacted but, thanks to the magic of modern technology, I was able to come up with the following words and post them on Twitter via @JoshuaBenesh, listed in order: “the City,” “Florida Project,” “the City,” GE (unknown word) Signal Flag, (unknown word), and Mark 0 Project. Take a look at the memo and read it with the redacted language in place. It definitely looks like the mystery World’s Fair project, with applications at both Disneyland and part of the Walt Disney World Resort was a city showcasing futuristic technology. It definitely seems like a precursor to Epcot and its existence (and the projects within it) seemed to be held close to the vest by WED Enterprises.
I want to help!
could you link the picture? I’m having trouble finding it.
Sitting at Walt’s table at Tam O’Shatner so here’s a few notes to get you started (pictures to be provided by Kalani later).
On one corner there’s a picture (carving) of a t-rex (looks like when you go back in time on the Disneyland train) with the text “1/22 Primeval World Meeting 01BC”
On the same side of the table in the other corner there’s the text “Contact Carlos about ‘Tomorrow’” and “5/16/64 = 0L1N” with the T/U symbol previously discussed.
There are more notes on the other side which you can see in the pictures posted later. In case of any confusion those four digit alphanumeric symbol starts with zero.
This is great information was this all physically on the tabl?
It was all carved into the table.
Do you have any photos of these carvings?
hmm the 4 digit codes don’t work on the lott site, but there’s clearly more to them, cant wait to see the pics. BTW thanks for going there too
If you try to type 01BC on a telephone, you get 0122. Likewise, if you press 0L1N on a phone, you get 0516. So those codes match the dates. But I tried entering those in the vocal mail system above and they didn’t work. Perhaps they are telling us how to encode dates in the future though.
I also tried those codes on the Lott site for project numbers and they didn’t work.
I tried the same thing, same result, I wonder what is the significance of the letters? And what about that symbol again?
The letters and numbers appear to correspond to the project dates (i.e. 01BC is 0122 for 01/22). It looks like that code is being used as shorthand for it’s project.
It looks like we’re missing the date for Progressland (‘The City’) project:
02/14 = 0B1G – it’s a small world (On the table and poster)
05/16 = 0L1N – Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln (On the poster and table)
01/22 = 01BC – Primeval World (On the table)
If we get this code, we might be in for the Lott Family Site. It’s also possible these might be for the new Voicemail system that was eluded to in the WED meeting minutes.
In the minutes of the meeting that took place on 4/19, it was decided to use a new project name and code. Shouldn’t that code be based on the meeting date, as these others were? 0419 would equate to 0G1W??
Just curious, where did you get the “G” and “W”?
Well in the IASW one 4 is a G. However I do not know where the ‘w’ came from.
Nevermind*
All of these match a phone number to letter system. http://faithchantal.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/phone-dial-pad-01.jpg
So 04/19 could be 0 (GHI) 1 (WXYZ)
But those aren’t the only letters that correspond to those numbers on phone keys – 4 could be G, H, or I; and 9 could be W, X, Y, or Z.
Great point. I just tried all the combinations on the Lott site, and got nothing. I bet it’s for the voicemail system.
i tried all the combos too, but nothing. It could be that the Lott site needs something more? The code is a Disney code, but Lott is a separate company, so perhaps there is some identifier that goes with the code, such as WED0G1W or something like that? Maybe the alphanumeric code is not enough?? I have not tried WED+code yet.
Carousel of Progress / “Progressland” is conspicuously missing, nothing on the table or in the poster about it.
(Amber has got “It’s A Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow” stuck in my head now so maybe I’m off base, but it does seem like a specific gap in our information.)
Just an observation about these codes, grasping at straws for clues:
IASW – 0B1G (B1G = big, as opposed to small)
Lincoln – 0L1N (L1N = lincoln)
Tomorrow – 0G1W (GW = gigawatt?)
Primeval – 01BC (BC = before Christ)
TAM = 08/26
Another day and night of awesome work, everybody. You all rock!
You’re the one who brings us all together!
So thanks to you, too, Amelia!
Okay, that carved table and Wallace’s “TAM” artwork are pretty awesome. Way to go! Could be that finding the “TAM” artwork in The Tam is the intended way we were supposed to find out about DisneyCartography.
I agree, I think we jumped the gun a little
Thinking about the codes and accessing files on lott construction site… We know Lott worked on IASW project and we have the code for that, so shouldn’t we be able to access those files? Seems like we’re close to figuring it out. I just think it stands to reason that if one project is on the site, then the other would be as well. Figure out how to access IASW files, then we know how to access other projects using the code.
TAM = 08/26
what is the significance of this?